Editor’s Note:Just before Denny Heck retired as President of TVW on August 1, he sat down with Paul Schlienz to talk about his unique career which spans 30 years in Olympia. Many of you know Denny for hosting “Inside Olympia” and as the moderator at AWB’s Annual Policy Summit.
Q. What inspired you to get into politics?
A. The inspiration of a good teacher.In this case, he happened to become a long-time Washington state legislator, retired Senator Al Bauer who was my high school social studies teacher. I worked on his first campaign for the House of Representatives. When I was in college, he was the one who tapped me at the ripe old age of 20 to become a research analyst for the education committee. He probably had more to do with me getting into this business than anyone.
Q. What was your proudest accomplishment during your years in politics?
A. The Tuition Reciprocity Act, which allowed people in Clark County to attend Oregon state universities at resident tuition rates. There was no publicly supported four-year college or university within commuting distance. You could go to Clark College, which I did, but if you were place-bound, you could not complete your college education unless you could afford the non-resident tuition rates at Portland State University or the private college rates at University of Portland and Reed College, etc.
The reason I cite that bill is because of an incident that occurred the last weekend of the campaign one year during re-election. The doorbelling was done. We were treated to the local pool hall and tavern to chalk up the sticks and knock down some brews. I noticed there was a young man across the tavern that kept eyeing me – made me a little nervous, frankly. Finally, he came up to me and said “Are you Denny Heck?”
That’s a question that instills trepidation in the heart of most politicians because they don’t know what’s coming next. Instead, what he said as he stuck out his hand was “I just want to thank you.I’m going to Portland State University to finish my college education. I never would have been able to do that if it weren’t for your legislation.”
To think that I affected even one person in that way to help them finish their college education fills me with a tremendous sense of gratitude for the privilege of being able to hold office. It really made a difference in a lot of lives, and I grew up in a household, son of parents who had lived through the Depression. My father was forced to leave school at the beginning of the ninth grade in order to help save the family farm. I heard this speech monthly if not weekly. It went “They can take everything away from you except your education, so get one.”
Q. The Basic Education Act is probably the thing that you’re best known for in your days in the Legislature.
A. I’m probably better known for the kind of bare-fisted approach to partisan politics I took in those days. I was the majority leader and chaired the House Democratic Campaign Committee two or three cycles, and it became my role as majority leader to stand up on the floor and defend the partisan point of view and, in the campaigns, to get as many of my colleagues elected as possible.
I think most people that have been involved in this process would think of me in those terms more than they would the policy stuff that I actually rolled up my sleeves and got my hands dirty working on, unfortunately. [laughs]
Q. For our readers who weren’t around in 1977, and I’m sure there are quite a few of them, what was the Basic Education Act all about?
A. The Basic Education Act grew out of a court case where school districts sued the state Legislature, in effect, because they contended the Legislature was not living up to its constitutional responsibilities to amply fund the public schools of the state. On January 14, 1977, the fifth day of that legislative session, Superior Court Judge Bob Dorn, in Thurston County, ruled that they were right that the Legislature had failed in living up to its constitutional responsibility. He ordered the Legislature and state government, in effect, to define what it meant to amply provide for basic education and to do it in measurable terms so that he could hold them accountable or so the court system could hold the Legislature accountable, and the Basic Education Act was the result of that court case.
Q. What did the Basic Education Act accomplish?
A. It reduced reliance on locally approved property taxes via the special levy system. It significantly increased funding for property poor school districts and limited the growth available to the wealthier districts, which had had a history of passing school levies.
Q. What if any changes have you seen in the Legislature over the years?
A. Three things: professional staff, an explosion in the growth of the number of lobbyists and an even bigger explosion in the technology that’s available within the Legislature.
Today, the Legislature has its own very capable in house professional staff. In 1973, I was hired for the first-year round professional staff the Washington Legislature had. As a research analyst then, I had an IBM Selectric typewriter. I didn’t even have one of those cool ones where you could backspace and white out the error you made in the previous letter. People who had those were considered really privileged.
Q. What about the Legislature as an “institution?”
A.The other thing that is different and I frankly bemoan is that there aren’t enough legislators who put a premium on nurturing the needs of the Legislature as an institution. Democracies are governed by the rule of law. The Legislature has its own internal laws, rules and procedures. They’ve evolved over a very long period of time.I think they need to be known more and respected.
Q. How about Washington state politics?
A. A significant change in the campaigns has been the amount of money that’s spent. I ran in 1976 in an open seat in a swing district. I spent $12,000 in my campaign.I was accused of trying to buy the seat because that was such a large amount of money. Now if you were to index to inflation since 1976, it would come nowhere near what open swing district competitive campaigns cost today. They have House races that exceed $200,000 and even more.
Q. Another area where we’ve seen a lot of changes in Washington has been in the union movement. It seems that the kind of unionism there used to be was a cooperative sort of unionism that worked hand in hand with employers a lot. It’s taken a more adversarial approach in recent years. What are your perspectives on this issue as head of TVW versus your years in the Legislature?
A. Well, I don’t know that I see it that way. I don’t know that I don’t.I think the trends that I’ve seen in the last 30 years, in this state as well as most states, is a decline in the percent of unionized workforce that is in the private sector versus that which is in the public sector. That’s probably the single most important long-term union trend that comes to my mind. Many of the industries that were once more vibrant and active that had unionized work force have declined and the growth, as everyone knows, has been in the public sector.
The union movement has the substantially inherent adversarial element to it, and we went through the period of time when there was an emphasis at least placed on the rhetoric of cooperation, but at the end of the day the purpose of the union, it seem to me, is to improve the wages and working conditions of your members and there are times when that as a transcendent value conflicts with what management is trying to accomplish ergo conflict.
Q. Over the years have your perspectives on the environmental and business communities changed since the days you were in the Legislature?
A. Well, sure.I’m reminded of that old story about the kid who ran away at age 14 and came back seven years later when he was 21 to find out how much his dad had learned in the meantime, which, of course, he hadn’t at all, but the kid had grown up.
I’ve gone through what most people have gone through that age, which is to essentially become more conservative over time. As it relates to business stuff, the first part of my career was spent almost exclusively in public service. I have a very active business life today outside TVW and even before I retired. So, yes, of course, my perspective on it has changed. Whose perspective on the world doesn’t change as they get older?
The world changes, and if you don’t change with it in some fashion, which is not to say you can’t have enduring values, but certainly my perspective’s changed.
Q. What inspired TVW’s creation?
A. Stan Marshburn.In October 1992, he walked into my office.He was director of policy for Governor Gardner.He said “I know what you ought to do when you get out of here.You ought to start a state version of C-SPAN.” We started it together.Stan left after three years and has since become the assistant secretary of the Department of Social and Health Services for business and finance.
Q. What were some of the challenges in getting the state government and Legislature to allow TVW to come in and broadcast the proceedings?
A. There are three challenges associated with starting any new statewide public affairs television network. They are as follows: the money, the authorization and what I call the dial location or the channel capacity.
This third challenge is in some ways the greater. If somebody gives you the money or you raise the money and somebody authorizes you to cover their proceedings, if you go home and turn on your TV set and can’t find the programming, then you still don’t exist.
At first, the Legislature was a bit resistant, especially on the Senate side. The House passed authorizing legislation, 90-6.The Senate was a lot more divided. There was kind of a straw vote on it.It was something along the lines of 28-19.
Q. Why was the legislature resistant?
A. There were two points of resistance within the Legislature. It is a great point of irony if not humor that they are mutually exclusive. There were those who believed the presence of cameras would chill debate - people would be afraid to speak because they would be held so closely accountable for what they said. There were those conversely who believed it would inflame debate because there would be so much grandstanding for the camera. Obviously, you can’t have both at the same time.In fact, what we firmly believe and, we have empirical data to bear this out, there has been no material effect or impact on behavior within the Legislature.
Q. What is your proudest accomplishment with TVW?
A. Taking it from the time when it was highly controversial to a broadly appreciated service both for the citizens of the state and the people who participate in this process.
Q. What is TVW’s target audience?
A. We don’t have a target audience. The goal is to make available to citizens of every corner of the state, of every political philosophy and partisan interest. It really doesn’t have a target audience. Or put another way: anybody who is affected by state government is a part of our target audience.
Q. Education, in a lot of ways, seems to be a theme that goes through your career not only with your work in the Legislature, but with what you’ve been doing with TVW.
A. It’s a powerful educational tool, there’s no question about it.Indeed, even the way I’ve approached my interview program, “Inside Olympia,” has been to treat it as an educational opportunity.
If you’ve ever had the occasion to watch it, you’ll know, Paul, that I don’t let people get away with stating acronyms or making references to things the average viewer might not understand, and because I think our purpose is to help shed light on the process and these people, and you can’t do that if all the discussion is this inside glossary – this language that nobody can understand that isn’t fully involved in it on a day-to-day basis.It’s not attainable to the average person, so it’s a very strong emphasis of mine because I believe the medium is such a powerful educational tool.
Q. How much does it cost TVW to operate and how is it funded?
A. There are a lot of different ways to measure that. Importantly, if you include value of channel capacity, which the cable industry donates to TVW, then the annual operating expenditure including this in kind contribution would be over $5 million.
However, the majority of that is a gift. The cash needs after that are approximately two to 2.3 million dollars, depending on the year and what special projects the organization is involved in. It is probably the single best buy in the history of state government.
Q. TVW is more than just a TV network.It is also a very interesting website.Tell us about it.
A. Our website is the largest repository of streaming media files in the world.A streaming media file, of course, means video or audio, and TVW has more than 30, 000 hours of past deliberations that it has archived and are available to the public for free.
Every word spoken in the state Legislature, in the House and the Senate, on the floor or in committee during session for the last six years is available for free at the touch of a button. Every oral argument before the state Supreme Court for the last six plus years is available for free at the touch of a button. In both these instances, that’s in audio format.You can listen to it, but you can’t watch it.
Furthermore, Paul, we make an SVHS copy. That’s a video tape format that’s better than the old VHS that you’d rent from a Blockbuster.It’s not as good as the high end BETA format. BETA is the format in which we actually telecast things. We make an SVHS copy of everything we’ve ever had on the air and donate it to the state archives division quarterly. Everything that’s been on TVW can be watched by historians in the future.
Q. TVW broadcasts more than just government proceedings. The other night I tuned into TVW and saw a UW lecture on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Who decides what events are going to be covered by TVW?
A. The vice president of programming.
Q. What is the criteria for selecting events outside state government?
A. First of all, it’s important to note that the primary focus in charge of TVW is to provide gavel-to-gavel coverage of state government deliberations. That’s always the first draw on what it is we’ll do via the Legislature, Executive Branch, boards or commissions or the Supreme Court. Outside of that, I think to put it in its simplest terms, the single most important criterion we would adhere to is balance - an almost obsessive adherence to the notion of presenting diverse points of view.
Q. What kind of traffic has your website been seeing?How’s it been trending?
A. I think last year our hits went up about 30 or 40 percent, as I recall.Last year I think we had 13 or 14 million hits at the website, but I’m doing that off the top of my head, so I might be off, but I don’t think I’m off by much.
Q. Increasingly, I’ve been listening to radio stations that are advertising TVW’s website, so I wondered if the website’s traffic is going up as a result.
A. The growth has been constant and steady.I don’t know that I would point to any particular reason for it. I think it’s more a case of as more and more people become aware that that service is available they tap in, and more and more people are on the Internet today than there were when we started this. We started this many, many years ago.
One of my favorite stories when talking about the history of TVW is to hold up the original planning report, which we rote in 1993, which I’m very flattered to say has become almost the Bible nationally as to how to undertake one of these enterprises. In fact, it’s been copied in several other states, even acknowledged by those states that they used TVW’s work as a basis for starting their own TVW-like network.
What I like to do is to point out to them in this report, which was written in 1993, that you cannot find the word “Internet” anywhere in it.Missed that boat, but we ran real fast and caught up.
Q. What are some of the states that have established TVW clones?
A. We have 20 now. When we began we were the ninth. So it’s doubled in 10 years.It’s very hard to start a statewide public affairs television network. It’s very hard.
At the national level, the cable industry has essentially undertaken this task.I took them some time to receive the cooperation of Congress, but that’s all they had to do. They funded it and they have the distribution.
At the local level, it’s not that hard to do because municipalities have the franchise granting authority for the cable industry for the cable industry and what they’ve essentially done is say “Yes, you can have the franchise to operate the cable system in this community, but you must provide for and fund a local government access channel.”
So at the national level and the local level, it’s fairly easy.At the state level, it’s harder than dickens. There’s no regulatory hammer the Legislature holds and so really all you’re operating on is the basis of moral authority. It’s the only way to get it done. It’s very hard.
So since we started, the number has doubled, but it’s hit the wall in the last couple three years because of the downturn in the economy, and now state governments everywhere are in difficult financial straits. I would expect at some point for it to turn up again, for there to be additions, but it’s very, very hard.
Q. At TVW, your successor is Cindy Zehnder.What can we expect to see from her as head of TVW?
A. Great question.Ask her. [laughs] I guess I’d say that you’re going to see some renewed energy and enthusiasm. I’ve made no secret of the fact that I’m timed out.I’ve even used the indelicate expression “burned out,” but it sounds a little extreme for a 50 year old guy.
I was timed out in that role and Cindy brings to it not only great professional experience, perfectly suited to the task, but some real renewed vigor, and I think it’s timely for the organization, and I think the organization will benefit greatly from it.
Q. What is Cindy Zehnder’s background?
A. She’s been serving as chief clerk for the last few years. She also was for many years the deputy commissioner of the state Department of Employment Security. Her very considerable public and community service has included long-time tenure as a regent of the University of Washington and member of the board of trustees of the Fred Hutchinson Research Center.
Q. What has been TVW’s most significant impact?
A. TVW’s reason for being is because citizens have a right to watch their government at work. What they do with the information once they watch is not our concern. It’s not up to us to hope they will take positions for or against certain policy issues. That is not who we are.It’s a dangerous and slippery slope for any public affairs television network to get on. Our goal is to make information available to people and have them make the decisions about how to use it. If I were to try to deal with impacts, it would be along the service lines. There are incredible numbers of people who have saved untold dollars due to the convenience of being able to watch TVW or access its Internet deliberations.
Q. Now that the TVW chapter in your life is coming to an end, what are your plans?
A. I don’t know. I’m fairly committed to the notion that I don’t ever want to work for wages again. I’m just enjoying life on a daily basis. There are a lot of possibilities, and we’ll look at each of them, but we’ll do so leisurely.It may be I’m more fully retired in the traditional sense than otherwise.
Business keeps me pretty busy on one hand. On the other hand, both my wife and I still have children and aging parents to care for.
I’ve written two books. The single thing I would tell you is the most satisfying for me to do is to sit down at a keyboard and create. That’s a possibility, but I’m not locked into anything yet.
Q. What are your business activities?
A. I’m an active investor in several enterprises.I’m co-founder of Intrepid Learning Solutions, soon to be, I think, one of the largest providers in the world of management or in-house training needs on the enterprise or large scale level.
I have a development company of which I am 50 percent owner.We develop office and warehouse projects.Sometimes we get a little bit exotic. We’re hoping to build some batting cages this year.
I am part owner of a couple of movie theater enterprises. I hope to do more in that regard in the future as well.
Q. You’ve mentioned that you’ve had some books published.What were they?
A. Well, the first one was that book, in 1987, about the future of schools in Washington state. It was called Challenges and Opportunities: The Transformation of Washington’s Schools. It was essentially a very, very, very long essay on where I thought our public schools needed to go.
The second book, which was just published last year, was a mystery novel involving a political figure – this will come as no surprise. I have ideas for three or four more novels coming out of the one I wrote. And I have ideas for three non-fiction books that I am considering, but I don’t know what I’m going to do.
I’m not worried about it.I’m having too much fun.I just got back from the southern Caribbean. Five days from now I’m going to Hawaii. I’ll be back a week, then I’ll go to Loon Lake, in eastern Washington, and about time to start planning what I’m going to do with the rest of August.
Q. What type of influence has your wife and your family had on your career?
A. My wife Paula is the most amazing person on the planet.Her tolerance and support for my episodic career has been infinite.
I’ve always believed that the reason that she was able to do that is because she grew up in a business household. Her father was a very successful accountant. He would come home for dinner, then go back to work. That was a six-day-a-week kind of enterprise.
I think Paula just assumed that your partner was going to give a hundred percent to the enterprise he was engaged in. The life of a small businessman may be the most important thing that ever impacted my relationship with her.
